FE Three Houses Localization: Are there references to older FE Games in the Two-Toned Whetstone sidequest?

A fun trivia and comparison post today!

A reader brought this nifty easter egg that reddit user PeppersJacks noticed in English to my attention. It involved items you trade while getting the Two-Toned Whetstone to either Shamir or Catherine, and whether the item names are actually references to previous games in the series.

The main items people point to are the Whetstone referring to Fates, the eyedrops referencing Awakening, and the book Path of Dawn being the Tellius games. Is this also the case in Japanese? Are there references that weren’t fully translated, or is this just a little nod by the localization team, or is it all a coincidence?

I took a look in Japanese as requested, and it turns out they most likely are intentional references when looking at the Japanese! But whether the localization opted to convey these (or realized the references) is up to interpretation. They do not seem to reference individual titles per se, but rather the sagas seen over the series …with one exception.

PeppersJacks got most of it, though the Tome of Comely Saints left them a little unsure. However it and the others are made more obvious in Japanese.

Let’s take a deeper look.

So I’ll go down the items in the order they’re acquired, which also lines up to the order of the games’ releases, making this more evidently intentional:

1.

English: Crestological Mysteries
Japanese: 紋章学の謎の書
Literal Translation: Mystery Book of Emblem Studies

Game Referenced: Mystery of the Emblem 紋章の (FE2/12)
Saga: Archanea/Valentia (FE1, 2, 3, 11, 12) (Note: Valentia included as it still takes place at the same time, as opposed to FE13)

How it connects:

紋章(Mystery of the Emblem)
紋章学のの書 (Book of Mysteries in Emblem Studies)

In English we see “Mysteries” made it into the title. One difficulty for Localization however is the word used for “emblem” in this game’s title is what Three Houses uses for “crest.” While they are both indeed “emblems,” naming it an “emblem” for this specific case may be jarring when the game has otherwise referred to them as “crests” the entire time.

So “Crestological” (“study of crests”, or “emblems”) and “Mysteries” (from the same “mystery” in Japanese).

The reference gets a little watered down as a result, from the much more obvious Japanese one.

2.

English: Tome of Comely Saints
Japanese: 麗しき聖人の系譜録
Literal Translation: Genealogy Record of the Graceful Holy People

Game Referenced: Genealogy of the Holy War 聖戦の系譜 (FE4)
Saga: Jugdral (FE4, 5)

How it connects:

系譜 (Genealogy of the Holy War)
麗しき人の系譜録 (Genealogy of the Graceful Holy People)

“Holy People” sounds a little silly, but is for the sake of literal translation here (otherwise “Saints” is much better, and fits the setting).

However the result is there is no direct reference to the title of FE4, where as the Japanese retains some of the keywords. The “Tome” accounts for it being a record. The “Comely” is rather different, to account for “Graceful” (can also mean “lovely” among other things).

Regardless, this is the one the reference is lost on the most. Considering it is given to Manuela, perhaps they wanted to make it more like something she would want to look at. But I hope that at least solves the mystery for PeppersJacks!

3.

English: Fire Amulet
Japanese: 火封じのお守り
Literal Translation: Bound Blaze Charm (“Fire Seal Charm”)

Game Referenced: Binding Blade 封印の剣 (FE6), Blazing Blade 烈火の剣 (FE7)
Literal JP Game Names: Sword of Seals (FE6), Sword of Flame (FE7)
Saga: Elibe (FE6, 7)

How it connects:

印の剣 (Binding Blade, or “Sword of Seals“), 烈の剣 (Blazing Blade, or “Sword of Flame“)
じのお守り (Bound Blaze Charm, or “Sealed Flame Charm”)

As we enter the realm of the officially localized titles, it gets a little harder to portray the literal translations as sometimes the terminology may differ, but they have the same meaning. I provide the literal names that fans would sometimes call them instead. The important point to take away is the “Fire/Blaze” in FE7, and “Binding/Seal” in FE6, which together make this charm.

Unfortunately, the localization here went with Fire Amulet, which while accurate to what the item is, may lose out on the fun reference to both games beyond a reference to fire, which could apply to any of the games.

Though, FE7 was simply “Fire Emblem” on GBA for the west –in which case this is a rather clever reference to the localized title instead!

4.

English: Glowing Stone
Japanese: 光り輝く石
Literal Translation: Shining Stone

Game Referenced: The Sacred Stones 聖魔の光石 (FE8)
Literal JP Game Name: Light Stones of Good and Evil
Saga: Magvel (FE8)

How it connects:

聖魔の(The Sacred Stones, or “Light Stones of Good and Evil”)
り輝く (Shining Stone)

I avoided using “Light and Darkness” for “Good and Evil” only because, while it relates to morally “light” or “dark,” I didn’t want it to reflect “Light Stones of Light and Dark”. It is inconsequential to the overall example though.

Anyway, while “Light Stone” would be inaccurate to what the item becomes, the characters are clearly seen in Japanese.

It’s curious, as localization could have easily called it a “Sacred Stone” considering you give it to Mercedes, it would have fit the setting, reference, and target character all at the same time. However, doing so would lose the fact it is indeed a stone that glows, or “shines.” The Japanese can keep both meanings thanks to the nature of its characters, but the English localization loses out on this. Glowing Stone does carry across the Japanese meaning, but not the reference as much.

5.

English: Path of Dawn
Japanese: 夜明けの軌跡の記録
Literal Translation: Records of the Path of Dawn

Game Referenced: Path of Radiance 蒼炎の軌跡 (FE9) Radiant Dawn の女 (FE10)
Literal JP Game Names: Path of Azure Flame (FE9), Goddess of Dawn (FE10)
Saga: Tellius (FE9, 10)

How it connects:

蒼炎の (Path of Radiance), の女神 (Radiant Dawn)
夜明け軌跡の記録 (Records of the Path of Dawn)

This is the one that alerted most readers to possible references. Indeed, it is probably the closest of the batch!

This time the literal translations of the titles are not needed to convey the reference, but are provided anyway. One thing you may note is that and 夜明け are highlighted as the same word here, unlike previous ones that used the same character in the item and game title. The above characters both mean “Dawn,” however, so the reference remains.

The part about “Records” is omitted, as indeed it sounds more awkward than “Path of Dawn.” I liked this one, it was pretty clever! Whether it was intentional or not.

6.

English: Eye Drops
Japanese: 凄い目薬
Literal Translation: Powerful Eye Drops

Game Referenced: Awakening 覚醒 (FE13)
Saga: Ylisse (FE13) (Can be considered part of Archanea?)

How it connects:

This one is the most abstract one. and is the only one with no direct title references. This one goes by context, namely: powerful eye drops to help keep one awake. How do we know it’s to help keep someone awake? Well, it is given to the ever sleepy Linhardt, and thus, “Awakening.”

It is after Tellius, and before Fates, too, so this helps back that claim.

It’s a bit of a stretch, the localization went with what the item is, as it would have been difficult to tie this to the game title. Perhaps “Drops of Awakening”? Or “Wakeful Eye Drops” or something. But those do sound awkward in their own way. It is a little difficult to depict a conceptual thing (such as an Awakening) to a physical item that adheres to what the original item is.

7.

English: Two-Toned Whetstone
Japanese: 白と黒の砥石
Literal Translation: White and Black Whetstone

Game Referenced: Fates: Birthright and Conquest if 白夜王国, 暗夜王国 (FE14)
Literal JP Game Names: if – White Night Kingdom, Dark Night Kingdom

Saga: Fates (FE14) (They never named the Fates continent…)

How it connects:

夜王国 (Birthright, or “White Night Kingdom”), 夜王国 (Conquest, or “Dark Night Kingdom”)
の砥石 (White and Black Whetstone)

The English titles don’t work here as they are completely different, and thus I provided the literal terms. Like with Radiant Dawn, Two different characters for “black” are used. Only this time, they aren’t synonyms, but rather one evokes the other. is more accurately “darkness,” which is associated with (but is not) the color “black” directly.

As the stone is both black and white, localization went with “Two-Toned.” This helps eliminate the possibility it is two separate stones, too, as that could be a possible issue with the literal translation (whether it is “white AND black” or two separate stones of two different colors).

This one would be difficult to keep consistent with the officially localized names for Fates… Whetstone of Birthright, or Whetstone of Conquest, or Whetstone of Conquest and Birthright would just sound strange…

So are the references purposeful in Japanese?

So with the above in mind, it seems like the Japanese was definitely intending on referencing the older games. The exact characters used in many of them appearing in the order of the games’ chronological releases would be a little too perfect to be a coincidence. Though there were certainly more abstract exceptions (Awakening and Eye Drops), it may have been to consider that the quest involved items first and foremost, with the names needing to fit who the item is going to as well.

The nature of Japanese enables fun with double meanings and different words that share characters, which is something that is much more difficult to do in English.

Update 4/13: A recent Nintendo Dream interview translated by Nintendo Everything hints the Japanese references were very intentional:

Does the world-building of Three Houses have any connection to other games in the Fire Emblem series?

Kusakihara: I don’t think so. At least, not as far as I can tell. I mean, there could still be some mysteries in the land of Archanea that we don’t know about yet. There are some items in the exploration quests that are evocative of past titles, and that was all thanks to the developers at Koei Tecmo. I think it was all really clever.

Though that sounds pluralized, like items from outside this single quest may apply. I have not seen the original Japanese for that interview, but still, it is not fandom entirely drawing at straws!

What about in English?

They may have missed it, or more likely chosen to ignore it.

Localization had to be careful not to just make up names that would better fit a game that is being referenced as these were still items that had to make sense to the player to trade to different characters in this quest. They could have either conveyed the reference at the loss of the core objective (naming an object), or simply conveyed the object at the loss of the direct reference (which is what they did).

However not all the references were lost. After all, many players picked up on Path of Dawn being the hint that the other items may be references too. In a way, in both Japanese and English, one would have to be aware of what the previous game titles were in order to truly grasp the references. That being said, a Japanese player would have a much easier time identifying the references having the exact characters compared to the more abstract English player that has to jump a few more degrees due to the different words involved.

It makes it difficult to tell if the localization was aware of the references, or if it was just a coincidence of conveying the Japanese item name, which, as a reference itself, would have spilled over to a good translation even if the translator realized it or not.

It may be a case where localization worked with text out of context, so may not have seen the items in association with each other, and instead just as they were individually. If it were just one item at a time, it would be much harder to identify a purposeful reference over coincidence. Many players likely would not have batted an eye if they did not look back after seeing “Path of Dawn.” I myself skimmed right through the names without thinking twice until looked at together!

That said, localizers these days are often in contact with developer teams over content. But in this case, perhaps it was just a minor thing that was never brought up?

Or, it was brought up but just something that was not deemed worthy enough to play with and instead they opted to convey what the item is rather than what it references.

In short:

The items are very likely references in Japanese as most contain characters that appear in games of the same sagas/worlds, with the exception of the more abstract FE13 reference. The English localization had a bit of a harder time due to the dilemma of representing an item over the reference unless it was possible to naturally fit it in. Not a bad approach, but it does rely on the English-reading player to make more of the connections than a Japanese-reading one would. While Japanese seems very purposeful in its reference, it’s harder to tell if localization realized the reference, as text is often looked at out of its context.

Localization Japanese Reference Specific
Crestological Mysteries 紋章学の謎の書 Archanea FE3/12
Tome of Comely Saints 麗しき聖人の系譜録 Jugdral FE4
Fire Amulet 火封じのお守り Elibe FE6,7
Glowing Stone 光り輝く石 Magvel FE8
Path of Dawn 夜明けの軌跡の記録 Tellius FE9,10
Eye Drops 凄い目薬 Ylisse FE13
Two-Toned Whetstone 白と黒の砥石 Fates FE14 B&C

 


A big thanks to the reader who brought this fun thing to my attention in English, and I hope this look on the Japanese side was fun and answered your question!

By the way, I wonder what these names are in non-ENG languages? If you are playing in another language, let me know if it becomes like a game of telephone or if they managed to pull off something awesome!

 

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15 thoughts on “FE Three Houses Localization: Are there references to older FE Games in the Two-Toned Whetstone sidequest?

  1. What I would have called these items:
    “Mystery of the Crests” or “Mystery of the Crests Book”
    “Genealogy of Holy Men”
    “Blaze-Binding Amulet” or “Blaze-Binder”
    “Sacred Stone” or “Shiny Sacred Stone”
    “Path of Dawn” is fine on its own but a really proactive localization team would have called, like, “Record of Radiance” or something
    “Awakening Eyedrops” (tbqh this item would have made more sense if it were coffee or tea to begin with. Caffeine wakes people up better then eye medicine)
    “Fateful Whetstone”
    Prioritize the references in the names, because the players can always look at the description of the item if they need to know who to give it to, and the references were the whole point of the quest.

    • Thanks for the comment! I liked Blaze Binder and Fateful Whestone a lot in particular. It is a tricky thing to do, but makes for an interesting exercise in general!

  2. I understand you meant well and I am not mad at you, I just, wanted to rant 😦
    It’s just… In one of the three houses trailers someone said “oh the continent has a name it already has better worldbuilding than Fates” like no?? I played at least half of one of the routes of three houses before getting bored with little happening in the story and frustrated with the lack of charm in the characters (they seem to be written as like… The OPPOSITE of gap moe. They get LESS likable the more I get to know them, wtf) and, in that time, I learned almost nothing about the culture of the world. I could not tell you what differentiated each region from each other; there was little indication of which character came from where. There were a ton of history books that I guess were supposed to serve as infodumps but they were just so dry and so many I couldn’t read them. Maybe there would be more on a different route but I don’t wanna play half the same game a bunch of times to get a route that satisfies my needs. I chose Claude’s route because, even though there is no indication anywhere as to what kind of story you’ll get based on which class you’ll lead, people online gave me the impression it was the most morally upstanding without the plotholes of Rhea’s route, and actually explained what was going on. Well it didn’t get around to it soon enough for me. Fates pulled a bad move by making one game for the price of three but at least the intro was so short you could actually skip to the route split when starting a new game.
    I really regret buying three houses, I can’t name a single thing they did right with that game. It’s like the Sonic 06 of Fire Emblem, except downright sad instead of comedic. I don’t even like the unit customization because it takes away from their characterization and individuality to pick their class for them or leads to gameplay and story segregation. I’m desperately trying to figure out what class makes the most sense but sometimes there just doesn’t seem to be one, or by the time I recruit someone they’ve been training in the totally wrong class that I wanted. And then I realize I range from outright hating to just being indifferent to these characters. Except Ignatz, I genuinely love him, but I don’t know what class to put him in either.
    I haven’t even said everything I think they did wrong with 3 houses but there are still people who criticize Fates and even Awakening for flaws they didn’t have or other games were at least as guilty of, while praising this game as the best thing Intsys has released in years. I can appreciate differences in games–I think Awakening was more well-made than Fates in some aspects, but ultimately Fates was fun enough that I could play it more than once, and so was Shadows of Valentia which was a GREAT game, but never endgame because the difficulty spike was absurd–but I can’t find anything to appreciate about Three Houses. 😦
    Sorry this got really off topic lol

    • I understand, thanks for clarifying! It’s okay, I don’t mind the rant. I hope it helps you feel a little better after organizing and writing out your thoughts that way. : )

      I think you are the first fan I’ve heard of Ignatz’s! It goes to show there are fans for the different characters out there, just as there are for the various games. : )

      • Yeah well I like shy boys, short boys, nerd boys, and cute boys lol (my other fave male characters–I have different taste in female characters–are Lon’qu, Soren, Rhys, Rolf, and most of those smol mage bois. Ross and Garcia too, they may go against the type as they are rather manly but they are just so wholesome and fulfill my need for good parent/child relationships. Possibly Lehran, but I think his last-minute heel-face turn derailed him. Up until that point he was very consistently a character who subscribed to a system of blue-and-orange morality that was very logically consistent–he even out-logicked Ike in their confrontation dialogue! But somehow being beaten up and yelled at makes him “realize” that he was just being selfish the whole time… selfish by trying to end all suffering??? It feels like such a retcon. They couldn’t commit to the amazing character they wrote).
        I think Ignatz is very interesting in this weird complex he has that everyone’s going to hate him–catch him painting and he immediately is like “I’m so sorry, I’ll swear off painting forever, please don’t be mad at me” and he gets so defensive and genuinely shocked that Byleth doesn’t have an issue with it, and he’s afraid to be around Raphael because he’s got it into his head that he’s going to blame him for his parents’ death. You start to wonder, who hurt him? And then remember that he doesn’t want to be a soldier or a knight at all, he’s just doing it to please his parents, and it isn’t until his A support with Raphael that he gets told “Hey, you don’t HAVE to do what your parents want. It’s your life, not theirs,” and it seems like it genuinely hadn’t occurred to him before. And I saw a screenshot out of context that has him saying (I don’t know in reference to what) “I can’t do that. My parents would disown me.” So you have a character who is very clearly suffering the results of some sort of parental abuse, but they don’t need to spill his whole sob story for you to see that, because it’s just not realistic for that to happen; they’re showing instead of telling. It’s very good! And it caters to all my tastes! (Most other characters in the game were either unlikable, boring, or just not appealing to me specifically.)
        I think it’s something very similar to what they did with Shinon, even though he’s a very different character. Based on his personal views and actions, you can piece together what kind of background he might have had, but like hell he’s ever going to tell anyone.
        Months ago there was a survey in Korea where people said Ignatz was one of their most actively disliked characters and other people then made memes about protecting him… XD

        • Sounds like a varied cast of people you like, which is great. : ) That’s an interesting take on Lehran for sure. I think the act of saving his life regardless of what he did would make more sense on what really changed his mind (on the second run+) rather than the first run, but even then it could be a stretch when one considers how long he had been carrying out his plan. Then again he had only recently taken a fall (after serenes) so maybe not?

          I see about Ignatz, I think he polled pretty low on some of the JP polls too, right? I think the Gatekeeper had more votes than him? xD But I’m happy to hear he has fans, and those are some good reason that I am certain makes him more personally appealing to you too. That’s adorable, having memes about protecting him.

          Garcia is lots of fun, I remember doing an article about his and Dozla’s support conversations to show what kind of fun they were actually having xD Did you read that one?

          https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2017/08/31/fe8-sacred-stones-localization-garcia-dozla-drinking-jpn-vs-eng-major-change/

          • Yes I saw the Garcia translation and I was really mad they changed the whole support chain! They could have easily written out explicit references to alcohol by replacing it with, say, something difficult to stomach, but left the bonding about their axe wielding and being dads intact! (I think spicy foods can make a good G-rated replacement for alcohol at times. Holding your liquor=handling spicy foods, and eating contests can replace drinking contests. IDK, “all I had for breakfast was a ghost pepper” doesn’t quite carry the same connotations, but it does give the impression of someone badass and ultra manly!)

            I think they could have made Lehran’s last-second change of heart more convincing if it was more logical. I always thought Ike seemed downright cruel in those interactions with Lehran–being told to “stay alive so you can suffer” by someone who doesn’t seem to know what he’s talking about is not the kind of thing that would convince me the world deserves saving. If his post recruitment dialogue was different, I might be able to swallow it–say, if he said that it was Yune and Micaiah reminding him that life was precious by saving him out of compassion as an act of mercy (as opposed to Ike who lets him stay alive because he doesn’t want to give him the relief of dying since that’s what he wants), and that he was able to realize that the only reason Ike was so cruel was because everything he loved was being threatened, and that the same thing–love for their fellow man–drives them both, that convinced him, I would have accepted that. I also think they could have dropped some hints that Lehran was desperate for a reason NOT to go through with this, but they actually made his conviction seem very strong! And while his “fall” after the Serenes massacre is fairly recent, I thought it was kind of the last straw for him after all the things he’s seen. He’s been seeing just how bad people can be for centuries upon centuries–that’s a lot of data, enough to say for sure that there’s a pattern going on that he wants to spare future generations from. And he’s been attempting suicide since he lost his powers waaaaay back in the day, even before he saw a lot of that happen. So his “end the world” decision was a millennium in the making, really.

            • Spicy foods is a pretty fun alternate they could go with, yeah! It may work better than grape juice xD (Spicy grape juice maybe?)

              That’s true, if he’s been witnessing all this then indeed it makes sense. I don’t recall correctly if he cooped himself up in Goldoa all the way up to right before the massacre or not, I’ve been meaning to play it again to see the JP extended script and comment on differences…

              • He left Goldoa because he was determined to stop laguz slavery and was frustrated with Deghinsea’s refusal to take action, and was there long enough to become known as Duke Sephiran of Persis, and to become close enough to Apostle Misaha to reveal his identity to her, and they succeeded in illegalizing slavery. So he’s been there for an ambiguous amount of time but at least long enough for all that to happen. (Who knows how many fake beorc identities he went through in his efforts to stop slavery, before he was able to become a duke and get the ties to the apostle necessary to? Well, that’s just wild guessing, but…)
                I would love to see extended script differences! I know there are some on Serenes Forest, but it’s not complete. There’s also someone om tumblr who compiled some differences in extended vs shorter script and general Radiant Dawn localization–some of which actually explain plotholes!–but they seem to be viewing everything through a pair of shipping goggles, which can be a little annoying.

                • Oh that was it, cool thanks for the reminder!

                  Yeah I was working with VincentASM (Serenes) to add to that extended script but life got so busy… oh I you must be thinking of amielleon! I was in talks with them to coordinate scripts where they left off since they’re not working on anymore either, so I just need to find the time…!

        • I forgot before, but… Donnel is also good. I feel like people are forgetting about him now, which is a shame since he did well on the first CYL but he never got an alt… (insert pensive emoji)
          Also, (replying here so the text is actually readable) I’m not sure if amielleon is the one who did the translation I was talking about. It wasn’t on their amielleon blog or fe-according-to-japan. It was a post-by-post thing, if that helps.

          • Yeahhh wordpress’s comment system doesn’t expect threads I guess, I have no idea what’s with that really ugly infrastructure there XD

            Oh, really? They’re the only one I know who was covering that, so maybe there was someone else then! I stay off of tumblr so am not too familiar with the fanbase there XD

            Yeah I remember Donnel got a lot of votes the first time around, and back when the game came out people loved him XD

  3. This… is just sad 😦
    This turned a cute series of references into “why the fuck did they put a chain of trade deals fetch quest into the game????”
    I understand that while some of these may have been too long to translate, I get the impression that the localization team didn’t notice the references at all. How the hell do you get “Fates” from “Two-Toned Whetstone”? And while calling that one item the “Sacred Stone” might have lost the fact that it was glowing, that wasn’t really important to the item since it doesn’t do anything but get traded. The whole point is to reference The Sacred Stones.

    And, for the record, I know you didn’t mean anything by it, but can we stop with the “they never named the Fates continent” business? The western lands were all part of Nohr, even if they were not part of the kingdom of Nohr, and the eastern lands were part of Hoshido, even in they were not part of the kingdom of Hoshido. Hence why the characters from those regions were classed as “Hoshidan” or “Nohrian” for things like meal boosts or their classes–Wolfskin and Kitsune–even if they were from other tribes with unclear status of independence. Countries can share their names with the continents. I don’t remember the specific line in Awakening where they specifically spelled out that Ylisse has the same name as its continent,
    I just figured it out. “They never named the Fates continent therefore the worldbuilding is bad” is just such a lazy uninformed argument I’ve heard so many times. The cultural similarities and differences between the two warring factions, from values and holidays to food and clothing, were outlined very clearly by the game. The two halves of the continent don’t share the same name because they don’t share the same culture, just like EUROPE and ASIA. Y’know, the real life inspirations for NOHR and HOSHIDO? I really don’t think it’s bad writing because the viewers didn’t have the ability to think about anything that wasn’t explicitly spelled out for them. And I know you didn’t say it was, but saying “they never named the continent” when they did carries that implication.

    • Thanks for the input!

      Really sorry about the continent thing, I can see how it may have been read badly, but there isn’t meant to be any passive aggression in it or anything! I’m not sure what to put that wouldn’t have been met with a detraction as there was no direct official labeling in resource material compared to the other games that clearly say such.

      It does indeed make sense to go with Nohr and Hoshido as their respective continents/bordering countries sharing the names and the like, like with Europe and Asia as you mentioned there. : ) The only reluctance was the fact that the Kingdom names in Japanese were just White and Black Night kingdoms… so are the continents White and Black Night as well? It sounds a little strange that way, and thus I assumed it was simply country that does not share a continent name, if that makes sense? For these kinds of reasons I just went with what I had. : ) Again, not a stab at the devs or anything, just that I did not want to write a speculative answer. And certainly not a stab at its world building, on this end at least!

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